Shannon Hernandez
Jared:
This bonus episode of the Kajabi Edge Podcast was recorded live on Instagram for International Podcast Day 2021.
Alright, we are now live! Hello everyone this is our first time ever doing a podcast live so you’re going to get to see it all in real-time, you’re going to get to see the show notes, the water...I don’t even know where my water is but hey there we are! We've got Shannon live already. Shannon, everything good? You can hear me well?
Shannon:
Yeah, I think we’re good. Let me try and adjust my camera so it doesn’t look so wonky but yeah there we are! I’m good, I’m ready to go.
Jared:
Awesome! I can hear you well...hear you as well. Man! This is good! First try! Like we didn’t have to go over any type of technical issues like we just hit it off. So I was planning for even like a couple of minutes of like potential difficulties as get things going but we can get the ball rolling. I don’t know how many people we have but what do you say we just get this going huh?
Shannon:
The day is young Jared, the day is young.
Jared:
The day is young. Well, today we are here celebrating International Podcasting Day which is super cool! Shannon, I know you are a podcaster but first of all, you are known as the Shanman correct?
Shannon:
Yes! The Shanman, yes.
Jared:
The Shanman. You’re a podcaster, you’re a YouTuber, and also a radio host which I guess this is like...this is your zone man like doing things live.
Shannon:
Yeah like I’m highly comfortable doing anything live. There’s no room for mistakes and if a mistake happens then you have to get into the mindset of letting it roll off your back, water rolling on off that back. That’s how it is so you just kind of go with the flow.
Jared:
I love it! I’m taking this in. Well for everyone who doesn’t know me I am Jared Lohman, Vice President of Customer Experience here at Kajabi, host of the Kajabi Edge Podcast normally found on all of the traditional podcast channels. Actually, we host our podcasts directly within the Kajabi platforms. So today, for International Podcast Day we brought on Shannon, who is kind of an obvious candidate to talk about podcasting.
He uses the platform, radio experience, so we’re just kind of jump on in. And again we’re doing this live in front of you. Eventually, we’re going to make this available for everyone to listen to early next week as well. But for everyone who’s tuning in now, you guys are seeing this in real-time, uncut, unedited. So well Shannon I’d love to kind of just start things off, the same way I always do kind of the 15-second like elevator pitch, a little bit about you.
Shannon:
Right. Okay so I’m a radio broadcaster but I have dove into the podcasting space right around 2005-ish around there, so let me give you the real elevator pitch. So I’m a podcaster, broadcaster, podcast producer and I help other podcasters, podcast producers, and editors acquire the skills to develop and create a sound design as it relates to lead generation.
So one of the things that we do in radio and we have perfected over the years is that we have developed the idea of theater of the mind with creative sound designs. So anything you hear on traditional radio, it has some element of creativity to it but it also injects the call to action by “Tickets here” or “If you want more information there, get the free thing here.”
So that’s really kind of where my wheelhouse where I really know where to position myself in the space. I’m not so much...I mean I’m very much into the tech itself but I’m not so much the person that focuses on the tech because that can be something that paralyzes a lot of people before anything else. It’s like we were just talking about you know...when we do things live we just kind of do them and the best way to do them if you make a mistake is that you just don’t worry about it and you keep going forward, the show has to roll on.
So my main focus is helping podcasters learn those side elements which I know are not a priority for podcasters but they have to become a priority at some point in time, eventually so that we can continue to get more leads because that’s what makes them more authoritative in their niche.
Jared:
I love it, I love it! Well, let’s...I’d kind of like to get an understanding of the genesis of this. Like how did you get started in this space like where did you end up like...you started on the radio I guess?
Shannon:
Right! So this goes back about 20 years ago and I was...I just graduated college and I knew that I needed - I wanted to be in radio that was the thing back then. Radio! Everyone wanted to get in. I don’t know if everyone wanted to get into radio but I knew I wanted to get in radio. And I had gotten a degree from Arizona State University but it was in Interdisciplinary Studies but it was with an emphasis in Broadcast Journalism.
I didn’t really take too many courses in College because I was in an Interdisciplinary program but I knew that I had to go in somewhere. So I started applying to radio stations around town and I landed a job, my first job at Rock Station and I worked there for about a year. And then that’s kind of where it all was launched.
During that time I ended up becoming and getting my master’s degree in Secondary Education so I was a high school English teacher for a couple of years as well. And then by 2005, I got a full-time job finally in radio. I was working 2 full-time jobs at the time and then I finally gave up teaching and then I just went in transition into radio itself.
From that point forward podcasting was such a brand new thing it was so fresh for everyone. No one knew exactly what it was about. They knew that it was kind of like radio but really at the end of the day it was guys like Adam Curry, and my friends like Evo Terra, and Chuck Tomasi, these early early podcasters who are basically sharing conversations through files to each other over the internet and that’s how it was.
And when you talk about this file-sharing of audio, it was really I think more for them. I mean they probably can tell you best, I can’t tell their story. But that…it was really was kind of the genesis “Oh I got to get into podcasting.” It’s just the natural way to go with radio. I mean you can say anything you want, you can cuss if you want, you can get as any...you can do anything you wanted with podcasting because there is no FCC regulation that was behind it.
And so I started jumping in and I started my very first podcast. I don’t even remember the name of it back then but I started with my buddy Jimmy. And during that time I was...I was started podcasting I had learned from my friends like Evo Terra that you know you got t to have a website, you got to be able to do this, you got to do all these things and I knew the audio portion of it all I knew that very well. What I didn’t know was the website portion, I didn’t know how to develop - build all that stuff from the very beginning so you’re talking about I threw myself directly into the fire of all of these and I struggled with it for a few years.
And then a few years later probably about like in 2008,2009, I can’t remember exactly, I had started another podcast. It was a little more adult-themed. It was called the 20-minute podcast with my buddy Jimmy and we...it was all comedy-based. He did the comedy and I did all the transitions, the segues, all of that. But I still struggle with the idea of trying to figure out the website, the monetization model all that because that was still so fresh and new no one knew anything about that. So I stepped back and I took a step back and I said “I’ve got to learn this stuff from the very beginning.”
And around the same time and I believe the universe works in mysterious ways that are always for your benefit, I had a friend of mine he said “You got to check out this course with Creativelive” and I said “Okay” he goes “Yeah, check it out.” And it just so happened to be a course with Lewis Howes and it happened to be with James Wedmore, Amy Porterfield, I think Amy is a Kajabi user and this was like my introduction to real online sales.
And I thought this is kind of like what radio does but no one ever broke it down. And until those guys broke it down in that course, that’s when I started to put the pieces together and be like “Okay I need to do this for myself.” So I started to do it but then I discovered that I really love teaching it as well and my...that urge to always teach when I taught students I always love seeing the light bulb go off, I always love seeing them be like “Oh this is amazing! I can’t believe you taught me how to do this!”
So I started teaching people how to do podcasting, I started teaching them how to sound design because people would say like “I want my podcast production to sound like yours” and so then I would show them and then they were always like mind blown. And then some of them picked up on it, others did not want to pick up on it, they just wanted...they focused on the money first before they focused on VR and so I don’t know where they are I haven’t seen them so I don’t know.
But all I know is that for me it was more about the desire and the determination to teach people that there is this other side of podcasting that needs to be implemented. And I have been preaching this for so many years and it hasn’t really come to the surface up until recently when Apple, and Spotify, and all of these other platforms have decided to go ahead and implement some form of monetization. You know before then it was really something that was done by saying “Hey if you like to donate to our Paypal, donate to our Paypal or we’ve got a Patreon this is where you can do that.”
The one thing that I had discovered though was that all of that was so disconnected from your main source which will be your website. So then I decided to go ahead and start developing programs on how to do the stuff not only with sound design but with websites. But I focused mostly with sound design and how to develop a podcast.
And at that time I went ahead and I went to a...you know fast forward a few years later, I went to a Jeff Walker conference with my sister, who’s also a Kajabi user as well. And there Chalene Johnson happens to be speaking and she...you know she was talking about you know how she makes sales, all the good things that we all know about sales. And Chalene is so great you know and at that time I was really really looking for that answer and she sold me on her program The Marketing Impact Academy and I got in on that and at that time she had gotten me on Kajabi. So I wasn’t exactly a founder of Kajabi but I was like just after the founders and it was when Kajabi was still like a platform for membership, just courses itself. It had not evolved to what we see it as today.
So from that point forward I really dove into Kajabi and I started developing courses and following her philosophy and method to developing my own courses. And developing all these other pieces to build an email list and to utilize podcasting, or YouTube, or your blog whatever the means of distribution may be, it was always going to be that I needed something that was going to collect email addresses because I would be able to harness that data or those people into you know possibly getting into something that they may be interested with podcasting.
And so that’s really kind of...I don’t know if that was the short version or the long version but all I know is that that’s the story and that’s where it took me and where I am today is that...it has you know we can get into it extra later. But it has...it’s evolved for me and I believe that there is a natural evolution that always happens within your business because you are always trying to meet the marketplace where it needs to be. So that’s kind of my story.
Jared:
I love it! Yeah, that’s... I think a common thing amongst everyone I talked to is this very natural evolution and progression of how a business develops. Rarely is the situation to where you just...you know you’ve come up with the idea, you come to the table and then it all just success after that. There’s always a journey.
Shannon:
Right.
Jared:
So I guess kind of speaking of that journey, we often times we go into like what are some of the kind of the hurdles, the challenges, the roadblocks? Like what are some of the things that you face when you know kind of I guess getting set up or getting this process built out?
Shannon:
Yeah I mean are we...are you talking like specifically just the journey of the business or Kajabi or?
Jared:
I want to say the business. Like the business of getting up and running.
Shannon:
Yeah, I think the biggest hurdle for me was the money you know... I would say that the money has always been the hard thing for me because there is definitely a cap where I am as far as what I do for a daytime job and there’s always a cap. But I believe that it had to be a shift in mindset and that’s one thing like I just recently did a survey with my email lists and I asked them what is one thing that is keeping them from doing the things? They say It’s money. And so when I first started out it was the exact same thing.
And I think the mindset of getting set up with my business was that I was going to have to actually step up and do some extra things. Do some extra work based around the knowledge that I had, that I can help, that will help bring in some of that income that will help me purchase you know the tools that I need. Purchase you know the editing software, purchase whatever it may be in order to take myself to the next level.
And what I have found is interesting and I think about this quite often is that when I go in and I think about the beginning journey every stage of my life up to that point has always been an upgrade. I’ve always upgraded into something better so whether that be I need the money to get the website, to come off another website platform, and get on to a Kajabi, or I need to do this.
I would do consulting jobs here on the side and you know and I’d say like “Hey look this is what it costs.” It may be $300 an hour but if someone values my time that much, then I’d say “Okay, well this what it is. We’re going to sit and meet at the coffee shop and I will break down all these things for you.” Then I think a lot of the challenges were like...I didn’t have the guide set up because what I was talking about was the same exact things about podcasting over and over and over and I did not want to be repeating myself over and over and over.
But instead, I would rather facilitate the conversation based around the conversations that we were having in the consultation meetings and then I would say “Okay here’s some guides that you could use,” and then they would take that and they would go and they’d use it and I’d seen podcasters use that. And then I started saying, thinking to myself “Okay well these guides obviously are their lead magnets and I can just give these away for free you know if that’s the case if someone really wants this information.
So for me it was about finding the time and the money to take myself to the next level. As far as the technical difficulties and the hurdles that I had to overcome you know...I don’t know if it’s okay if I say here but I mean I was on WordPress before I was on this...on Kajabi. And what...don’t get me wrong WordPress is a great platform to start on although I think it is a little much for people and you have to deal with so many different technical issues - setting up the website hosting, setting up where it’s pointing, getting the theme, all these things - and I did not realize existed with getting a WordPress site.
And when I transitioned over to Kajabi it was very basic at its core in the beginning. Then a couple of years ago the company really took itself to the next level and said “ No, this is not only now a website where it houses your courses, it’s now a full blown website with email marketing and with landing pages and all that.” And that comes back to the money piece. It was like, you know, I had this, get a separate API...separate software for landing page, and I had to get a separate software for email, I had to get all these separate software and they connect the API to the WordPress. And hope that the API was connecting right with WordPress and then if it broke I didn’t know if it breaking, I will be losing leads.
So those are all these hurdles that I had that did not exist inside when I jumped in to Kajabi. So the moment, and I know it’s like a big commercial for Kajabi for me, but like I’m a total fanboy because I’m all about working smarter not harder. And that is the philosophy that we work in radio. That’s how we work in radio. It’s like work smarter not harder.
Prepare yourself for what you’re going to say, how you’re going to say, when you’re going to say it and make sure that it's as accurate as it can be. And I took that philosophy directly into building my website, building out podcasts, building everything out and it seemed to work. And I just kept going with it and I continue to go with that. And I believe you know preparation is obviously the biggest key to success you know but the one thing that I think is that you know...I don’t wish...I wanted it to be easier but I needed to become better it’s what it was.
And I had to learn over and over and over. And I became so good at it that I now know the podcasting piece, I know how the editing piece goes, I know how the website piece goes, I know how the email... I know every part of my business. But the moment that I decide to transition over into having...in hiring someone onto my own team that If they do something of like...well I know exactly what you can do, here’s how you can do that and I can still teach them and how to do those pieces on my website or on podcasting.
So there are definitely hurdles that you’ll have to overcome but I think that’s part of the journey regardless of where anyone is. There is some hurdle that you’ll always have to overcome and you have to fail at it, you have to trip over, you have to make it look as good as you can. And you know, coming back to the very beginning of this conversation, regardless of what we do on radio we try to make it as best as we can but if we make a mistake we roll with it because things in real-time people don’t even remember what you said.
You know in real-time, some will ”Oh I remember 6 years ago you said this and you made a mistake” and I’m like “I don’t even remember what I said” you know.
Jared:
I don’t remember what I ate for breakfast.
Shannon:
Yeah and so you don’t...like I don’t worry about those things because those are things that paralyze podcasters, business owners, website developers. Those are like...it’s the minutiae that you shouldn’t have to worry about but you should be always learning.
Jared:
I love it! Well, you’ve been on Kajabi for quite a while. Did you ever anticipate that we would actually have a podcasting feature on the platform?
Shannon:
You know I hoped, I hoped.
Jared:
I bet.
Shannon:
I would sit in here and I would curse myself and say like “I wish they had” no, I’m kidding! I didn’t do that. I knew that it was kind of a direction that Kajabi was going to be going because I had seen...I see all the development updates. I saw...I can’t remember what this last development update was but I knew that once you had...once the company had started implementing email marketing and then started implementing landing pages, it was an all-in-one platform and I’ve been there for just about every little launch that you guys have done and I was like “Man, it would be really cool if they did something that had to do with podcasting because an all in one with podcasting would be the world for me.
Because the way podcasting currently is, is that you typically record the podcast like we’re doing and then you would have to go to a separate hosting site. You would have to go to, whether it be Libsyn or Blubrry or whoever it may be and then you’re uploading to a separate site. And then once you’re doing that then it’s still disconnected from your main website and I didn’t like that idea. But as podcasting has evolved, we now see the implementation of monetization. And you’re starting to see more about a...instead of saying subscribe to the podcast, you’re saying follow the podcast but if you want to subscribe to the podcast it’s all in the semantic positioning of the word subscribe me and say “Yeah there is going to be an exchange of money for content.”
And so when I was seeing all these happen and when Kajabi implemented this part of podcasting under the platform where they are now a podcasting host that have integrated the hosting along with the offerings...the offering features of Kajabi, I was like “Oh, I’m sold” like I’m...this is like a no brainer to me like it makes so much sense because at that time and leading up to that I had been looking at other platforms that had done something similar but it was still disconnected.
And the fees were like...it would be like “Oh we’re going to be taking ¢50 of every dollar out of every purchase that you get and I was like that’s not worth it to me because I’m just basically doing it for free. I realized that there’s a cost of doing business when you are talking about fees and you’re charging for paid podcast. And I knew that once I was implementing...when I implement something in Kajabi that the service fees would not be outrageous and it would allow me to develop better content.
Not only would I be able to create free content that can serve as marketing material to create and generate leads but I can also funnel them directly into a paid podcast that is directly connected to my bank account. It’s not you know...I’m paying the service fees - the fees that is the cost of doing business but it’s not robbing me. And that’s the way I looked at it and I was like this is brilliant! I love that this exists with Kajabi.
Jared:
Yes! So you are...I believe you’re doing this all on Kajabi now is that correct?
________________
Shannon:
Oh yeah! I moved directly over...I was like...once I saw that I was like “Oh we’re moving this over. We’re moving this over regardless of it...like there’s parts of it that are in beta.” Knowing Kajabi, knowing what you guys do and knowing that there are developers that are always working on this, you know it will always improve. And I know that the improvements will come. I'm a patient man.
I’m you know...I’m not like a purist podcast because there are some like “Oh I need this statistic immediately and all that” I don’t use...I’m not like that. I know and I expect that there is a growth process that comes with the platform and I understand that when Kajabi puts their heart into what they're doing I’m you know...I’m really such a fan of Kajabi. I’m not going to lie, I’m not going to lie.
It is going to improve 100% every single time because my website has improved, my emails, my lead generation improved. Everything improves! The landing pages have improved. I mean everything improves so when it comes to podcasting I cannot wait to see what continues to be implemented.
Jared:
For sure. Well for all of the people who are tuned in live as well as all of the people who are listening to the recording of this as a podcasting expert like...what advice do you have for everyone here you know to get, kind of, get their podcast off the ground?
Shannon:
Yeah so there are some things that you can start with, typically most people are always looking at you know what equipment do I buy and that’s you know always the question that you get. What’s the best equipment that you get? And this has evolved over the years. So it doesn’t have to be you know you don’t have to be a mixing board like I do. I recommend that you do because it does have higher quality sound and you can do a lot more with it or you can just start simply simply with a Blue Yeti microphone or some type of USB microphone.
I believe Shure has a microphone that you can go ahead and grab and plugs into your computer and you can start with Zoom and you can start without a microphone. But I think when it comes down to what you need to start with I think you need to start with what is...number 1: What is your objective? What is the market that you’re trying to serve?
But also there’s also like a sub-objective...What is your true objective of your podcast? And I bring this up because and I don’t want this to paralyze podcasters. But it is the most important thing that I think podcasters missed the mark on is that they don’t know what the objective of the podcast is in terms of what is the end game? What is the bottom line? What are we trying to achieve with that?
So you know for years it’s always been I just want to get downloads and it’s like “Okay but what do downloads do?” Will they get me sponsors? Okay, so let me start there, let me start there. Getting sponsors typically requires you to constantly be renewing a sponsor and that’s where radio has come into play for me and into podcasting that’s where the worlds merged.
And it was like if you get a sponsor it’s your responsibility for not only be a great presenter, have a great content but you have to constantly be renewing the contract on a sponsor. And then they hear that and then they kind of go “Oh okay you know that’s fine and maybe I can get a sponsor.” But I don’t think people realize that’s more work. That’s a lot more work as opposed to developing and building content that is valuable, that is entertaining and that can bring not only joy to someone else’s world but appreciation for your program because still to this day someone can...you can say “Hey if you’re looking to get better content and more you know more access to me or whatever it may be, head to my website” you know to be...whatever your website may be and then there could be those offerings to you know “donate” back in the day. It was donate to your PayPal. Now with Kajabi and with Apple Podcast and all these different ones you can all set your price what you want it to be and people can gain that access to you now by getting commercial-free podcast, to getting additional 30 minutes of a podcast, to getting all these other things that you could do.
So I would say in the beginning start with getting some simple, simple equipment. Just get a Blue Yeti microphone or a Shure USB microphone. Know your objective and write out, write out at least 10-15 topics that you can talk about and if you have 10-15 topics those will be your weekly podcast that you can talk about - 30 minutes, there could be 50 minutes, there could be an hour, you can bring in a guest, you can do whatever you want.
But bring those in and start developing and bringing in your knowledge into the niche and start recording it and publishing it. Don’t worry about the production side of it in the beginning. Just start in the beginning and then what you can do as you evolve, you will evolve, you will want better production, you’ll hear how popular podcasters are doing it. You don’t have to be a Joe Rogan, you don’t have to be a Marc Maron but you can definitely start developing your craft.
And like I said before, don't wish it were easy, just become better in presenting. Become a better presenter so that you don’t have to edit so much on the cutting room floor. The big problem with a lot of podcasters is like “I worry about saying um and ah” and that’s just...that’s a non-issue in radio. Well yeah, whatever it’s not a big deal to us you know we don’t worry about those things. Removing ums and ahs is more audiobook style than anything else. When you’re talking one on one with someone on Instagram Live or on a podcast it’s a natural conversation and some people are going to have filler words. Just become a better presenter that’s all it is.
So back to your initial... What do they need? Equipment, microphone, Zoom, have your objective. Write out 15 topics that you can talk about. And then if you want to develop this and build this into your business whether you’re a Kajabi user or not, get into some type of hosting. Kajabi already has the hosting but there’s other hosting providers out there. Kajabi for me will just make it easier to when I develop those offerings. And then you can kind of get started from there and then you’ll know what your market wants, you’ll know when you ask them.
Jared:
Okay. So I’m curious just from your perspective, do you see the podcast as a tool to directly monetize? Do you see this is a good lead generation strategy like how do you think about podcast? Maybe all of the above.
Shannon:
Yeah, it just depends on your objective that’s why I say “What is your objective with this?” So you know I did this survey a few days ago and I asked them this very question “What is the main objective of your podcast?” And the answers are varied. Some wanted strict downloads, some wanted to monetize directly off of the podcast through subscription process. Alot of them wanted to use it as a marketing tool.
That’s what they wanted to use it as and I think that’s great! I think it’s perfect because not everyone wants to monetize and use their podcast as a subscription-based model. They do want to use it though as generating leads because creating and building a podcast and developing themselves as the authority in the niche will allow them to get you know...get leads. You know however they direct them in the podcast, they... you know go to our website, go to this page, go to this waitlist, connect with me on a consultation call, go here.
So it really kind of all depends on what your objective is. That's why I say it’s very important to know what your objective is. If it’s downloads you need this...then you’re focusing on downloads and sponsorships. If it’s direct leads and marketing then focus on trying to get those leads. If it’s just strict marketing then just focus on how you can add value into someone else’s life.
Maybe you’re a dentist and you’re talking about different ways of plaque that gets on the gum and you know that this may be a free series podcast. And eventually, maybe it leads to some calls to the office and that’s what it could be, that’s all it is. And maybe they want you to get your teeth cleaned more often, I don’t know what it could be but it can serve certainly as a marketing tool. So just know what your objective is. I even have it written down on my whiteboard here. I have a 5...5 reasons or 5 ways you could...what your objective may be... to monetize strictly, to be used as a marketing tool, strictly to entertain, for lead generation and then or build a dedicated community.
Jared:
Okay. I have a feeling you have a strong opinion on this one but why podcasting over you know any of the other several tools or ways you could start your business?
Shannon:
You know I don’t have like a...I haven’t say it’s like a strong opinion. I believe you put your efforts where you need or where they match with you most you know. For me, I have gained a lot of my leads believe it or not from YouTube. Now I know that this is not a YouTube thing but you know YouTube being the second largest search engine I was like “Well I’m showing people how to do things on podcasting so I need to show them this.”
Then when it came down to the philosophy then I was like “I need to come in and teach them the philosophy” so through teaching, through passive listening in some sense. When you’re using podcasting though - and it still applies to whatever platform you’re using - when you’re using podcasting and you’re uploading into a Kajabi or wherever you are uploading it to you still have to place in words that Google and search engines will latch onto. So it’s just not recording a podcast and then putting it up there and wishing and praying for rain.
It’s actually doing the work because what we’re doing is we are developing and building more and more awareness to our podcast and I think what we see what podcasting is that it is so intimate with how we get involved with the guest. We get to know the guest on a deeper level versus say a YouTube video, where my YouTube videos are anywhere between 7 to 10 minutes. But they don’t know who I am, they don’t know that I suffer from sciatica and I do yoga so I can alleviate it. They don’t get that and you get that with the podcast. You learn about the host, you learn more about those people. But it serves so many different purposes that you also develop and people learn that you are the person who knows most about this area and topic of expertise.
And I think with podcasting you can...you can develop and harness that platform any way that you want. Ultimately at the end of the day I think what it comes down to is that you are connecting one on one with someone in their ear. And they’re knowing, not necessarily the most intimate details of your life, but they feel as though that you’re their friend. And so they tell their friends about you, and their friends tell their friends about you and that’s how you develop and grow...excuse me, grow an audience and grow a podcast audience.
But there are other many...there are different ways, there are the technical ways, and then there are the natural organic ways, word of mouth that gets out there. And I love that idea because this all comes back to radio. It comes back to radio for the 20 years that I have been doing this. There is a connection that I have with my listeners and they understand that when I share something on social that that’s who I am. And when they hear me on the radio they get who I am on the radio and online as well. So you have...it’s like this synergy that you start to develop and build and so that’s what I really love about podcasting.
Jared:
Very cool! Well, I want to be selfish for a minute. Since you are a truly an expert in this area let’s just talk about the Kajabi Edge Podcast for a moment like have a moment of inception like what is...you’ve mentioned you’ve listened so I love this. Like tell me, like what are some of your thoughts like...how can we take it to the next level?
Shannon:
Yeah, I mean well here’s the thing it depends on the objective of what the Kajabi Podcast wants to do. I have heard that you know there is a post-roll ad for “Hey if you want a consultation call or meet with one of our experts” you know reach out to us things like that. You know really it’s all going to depend I mean...I know that for me when I have tested this out for myself, listeners sometimes don’t like too many commercials, maybe they do like commercials, maybe you know...it’s just all depends.
If you are to do something that is strategic within Kajabi the way I would look at it is you know like in your pre-roll, you guys have a great pre-roll it’s like hey you have a pre-roll it tells people exactly what they’re going to get. Now, what do we expect when people listen? Do we expect them to listen to that pre-roll for the 10 to 15 seconds that you’re talking about that? Or do we expect them to fast forward through that?
So we have to be very conscious of where we are putting those placements of what our self-promotion would be looking like. And you know there was years ago and I think this podcast still exists, there's a podcast called Marketing Over Coffee, these guys are great. And you know they knew exactly where the call to action placement would be non-evasive within the podcast itself.
And so I think something that Kajabi can do is that not only is someone that you’re interviewing a Kajabi user but there could be maybe an offer that you could be so non-evasive within the podcast itself by saying like “Okay well Shannon, you have had Kajabi for quite some time and tell us about your experience within” and I give you my experience about that. And then a non-evasive call to action will be like “Oh yeah and you know if people didn’t know they can schedule a call with our experts - our team of experts who will walk you through all these.” And then you give a 10 to 15-second ad that sounds nothing like an ad and then you just keep going with the interview. And that’s all it. Non-evasive.
Jared:
I love it! And you just did that for us right here in real-time.
Shannon:
I’m editing it out of your recording. No, I’m just kidding!
Jared:
That’s cool! So I’d love to kind of get an idea of what has changed for you as the result of this journey? How is your life different? I don’t know like...how much you want to talk about like kind of where you’re at today versus where you started? Like I just want to give the listeners a feel for what their life could look like?
Shannon:
Yeah, you know this always inspires me. In fact, I got chills on my arms thinking about it. You know, depending on where someone is in their journey, and my journey has...you know and the way things are different now you know...I have moved into this condo complex 5 years ago. I really didn’t have a plan set in place and I was filled with a lot of worry and I was like “Am I going to be able to afford this place on my salary and how can I just start leveraging all these things?
And I just knew that one thing that needed to happen is that I needed to change my mindset. And when I went in and I was in the beginning trying to monetize online but everything was just so disconnected. And when Kajabi came around and I had the right teachings, the mindset started to shift and I was able to say to myself okay if I build out you know... a white paper of some sort telling people this is exactly what you need to get and start selling it then that can be money that is basically...is a consultation, a very cheap consultation, someone is DIYing it themselves but it is helping benefit me in upgrading my own life.
So I look at this office and I look about...I look at how the things have changed like this office did not look the way it looks I mean I’m not sure if you can see. But there’s you know...I finally invested in soundproofing, I have gotten ring lights because I have made the efforts to go forward, move forward and have the courage to say “I’m going to sell this free thing that’s going to help someone, whether it be $15, whether it be $25, whether that be you know $50, whatever it may be because I know I’m helping someone else.” And I think that’s where I was stuck for a long time. I was stuck with like I don’t have the money to do this.
And when I think back and I look at it I just took a step forward, I took the step forward. It was like you know there’s people who are making billions of dollars because they just took a step forward, that’s all it was. And for me it was like it doesn’t matter how big the step is. I'm just taking the step forward and when I took the step forward to start selling little PDF ghost offers on Kajabi then that resulted in $6K like you know...I was like “Oh my!” I mean I’ve made $6K off of something so simple that it has benefitted someone else’s life.
And so that’s what inspires me and keeps me moving forward and that’s what makes me go “If I can keep doing this, who’s to say what next year will look like? Who's to say what consultations I could get next year? Who's to say what courses someone can buy?” Because I’m enriching someone else’s life based off the knowledge that I had over the last 20 years. And I had to get out of my own way. I mean don’t get me wrong there. I have dove into a lot of self-help books. I’ve listened to, you know, Jim Rohn, and I’ve read books by Jen Sincero. And getting set with my own mindset about what money looks like, where it...before I looked at money it’s like “I don’t want to talk about money” you know. It’s taboo versus me saying “Ok my relationship with money has to improve for my life to improve.” And that has certainly changed I’ve just you know...I’m closing on a refinanced my place tomorrow. You know I’ve got money to buy brand new computers now. These are all things that have changed dramatically for me. My sister has seen you know...like I’ve mentioned before she’s a Kajabi user. Kajabi has helped her out with what she does in her business.
And so I look at it and I say “If I had not taken those steps I would still be lying in my bed, miserable, depressed, scrolling endlessly on my iPhone, wishing that something better would be happening. And I think that’s where you have to take yourself. You have to look in the mirror and you have to be honest with yourself and you say “What do I want to be? What do I want to do? And how can I enrich someone else’s life? I know we always use how can I serve someone else’s life or how can I serve someone else? But I think I always look at it as how can i enrich it?
And I take that philosophy directly from radio because you’re all about enriching someone else’s life through music. And we all connect with music but when you connect with music you can also connect with words. Hey, I remember when I was 15 and I heard that song on the radio and I was out in the middle of the hills and that song was the exact time when my friend Kevin got our ropes swung on a tree and circle back and hit the tree. You know I mean you connect with people that way and those are ways we enrich other people's lives. And so I want to be able to do that while I can help myself develop and build my own life out.
Jared:
That is incredible! I guess what I’d like to do now, I mean I imagined there’s several people that are here on the live as well as people are listening to the recording who are very interested in learning a little bit more about you, your offering. How should they find you?
Shannon:
Yeah. You can go to theshanman.com. I have all my offerings up there. In fact I’m preparing...I got this idea directly from one of your previous guests, I can’t remember her name exactly but I have communicated with her. She did The Obedient School.
Jared:
Oh yes, yes! Oh man! Who is Obedient School?
Shannon:
I forget her name.
Jared:
Oh you put me on the spot!
Shannon:
No it’s all good, it’s all good. But I mean she knows who she is and I have been inspired. I was inspired by that podcast when you interviewed her and she talked about building a membership and I’m building a membership out right now because of that specific podcast. And so you can reach out to me, I have a short link actually it’s shanman.tips/waitlist. So shanman.tips S-H-A-N-M-A-N-.-T-I-P-S-/-W-A-I-T-L-I-S-T it’s all one word. And that would get you on the waitlist.
Jared:
I love that you mentioned that because I tell you that’s how I feel every single time that I’m interviewing a guest. I want to walk away and do something as a result of this because there’s always so many little things that you pick up from each one of these interviews. Like it takes everything within me not to just go and start a new business everytime I hear another...I interview another person like now it’s podcasting. Training the last time you know...I’m really glad that that’s resonating.
So well...again we’re here for International Podcast Day live. We’re going to do something a little bit different. Traditionally we’d be kind of be ending the show here. But like we’re going to try to do this together if you’re willing to hang on with me Shannon here. We’ve got a couple of questions that have popped in. I think I’m really going to need your help answering this, you can’t leave yet. We’re also going to be giving away a starter set for podcasters including that Blue Yeti microphone that you mentioned a couple of times.
Shannon:
Right.
Jared:
I want to get started kind of with the questions that are popped in just a couple of them. This one came in from @allthingssolo. The question is “Been thinking of starting a podcast but I’ve been feeling uncomfortable to talk on the mic as a non-native English speaker. I speak fluent English but have an accent, how do I overcome it?”
Shannon:
Yeah, that’s always...I just got a survey answer on that. That was one of their fears and you know I would say that we have to remember that your audience is going to understand and appreciate who you are. You have to be authentic I mean that we threw that word around so much “authentic”
but if you’re not true to yourself about what you are trying to achieve and accomplish you shouldn’t have to worry about other people thinking that you sound stupid.
Like that’s what they say, that’s the words that they say “I think I sound stupid!” And no one sounds stupid, no one you know. I would say this and if I were to encourage someone else, people who are going to make fun of you if you feel that they’re going to be trolling you just remember you know 2 languages, they likely know one you know. You know 2 languages and if you know 2 languages you’re doing...you are eons and light years ahead of everyone else.
So you prove yourself as being a consistent and constant learner and you’re educating yourself to become better, that’s what I would say. So I wouldn’t be afraid to start that podcast and I would you know...I would not make it the primary I guess crutch for your podcast. I would say that...that is probably your biggest strength because you are inspiring other people to do these things you know.
I’ve had people who reached out to me and say “Oh my Gaelic is so strong that people don't understand me” and then I said “You just got to move forward and educate yourself.” I mean depending on the accent and depending on what you’re delivering. I know one thing for sure is that when you’re delivering value through a podcast and people just don’t even worry about the accent they’re like “That guy knows the stuff. She knows her stuff.” That’s the way I look at it.
Jared:
I love that answer. That is great, like that completely resonates. I know just speaking for myself for a moment of authenticity here like I guess I probably have an accent to someone I know. I guarantee if you’re coming from the south I sound like I have an accent, we all have some type of accent to someone first of all. And I think everyone is going to feel some sense of nerves associated with putting yourself out there like that’s really what you’re doing in the end is you’re putting yourself out there.
Just like we’re doing today, both of us we’re doing this live like we could have anything could happen. Thankfully nothing has happened but like you know a bottle could’ve fell over or my computer could’ve died, the battery could have died, anything can happen.
Shanon:
Here’s a great...here’s that real quick story and example. So a couple of years ago there was a band that came to town and we were doing this big festival for concerts for the radio station. And the radio station asked me to do a stage announcement for the headlining band and I was like “Yeah, sure!” So in between the set change I had to go up there and the band that had played before the headlining act, they were called Fever 333 but their previous band was a different band name.
And so I went up and I started trying to get the crowd all riled up and I’m like getting everyone to yell and then I say, I say the wrong band's name that had just played. I didn’t even say it was Fever 333, I say the wrong band name because my mind was in other places. And then I came off the stage and people were like “You realized you said the wrong name right?” And I was like I just said it to 30K people I don’t think they...I think they’re going to look at me like...he made a mistake whatever. And then people made mention and was like well...though and I think the moral of the story is it’s like I went up and I say “Hey I tried, I tried and I made a mistake and I’m only human.”
Jared:
Exactly. Yeah, if you can make that mistake in front of the live audience, in front of 30K+ thousand people like I mean you can edit it out of a podcast.
Shannon:
Yeah, yeah you can... yeah totally.
Jared:
We’ve got another one for you here. This one comes from @thefinancerebel, their question was how do you become a better presenter?
Shannon:
You know that’s a good question that I get asked all the time and there is no magic bullet, no magic pill, no nothing that’s going to do it. This ultimately comes down to the fact that you need to practice. And by practicing you just need a podcast and become a better presenter. So like I keep saying in this podcast you know don’t wish it were easier just wish you were better and practice at it and become a better person.That’s a Jim Rohn quote and I’ve taken that everyday into my life.
Just wish you were better. If I were better at something...If I become a better presenter it takes my time out of the editing room, it saves me time out of the editing room so I can focus on my business. So becoming a better presenter and knowing what I’m doing requires me doing my show prep, research, writing down notes. I actually encourage podcasters to not read from a script like you know you and I we’re just having a natural, organic, flowing conversation.
As a presenter just have a little bullet point notes. What are you going to talk about first? What are you going to talk about second? How are you going to introduce your guest? How are you going to transition into your call to action? You know...what are you going to be promoting? So the more you start to do that, the better you get at it and you have to be very conscious of not going on autopilot. So when you get on autopilot then you hear in this podcast you’re just like “Oh get our download, no you know get our download and then of course you can go to our website” then you know. It just becomes routine, that's what people just do now.
If you can become a better presenter by learning how to navigate your own speech patterns then you become a better presenter. So it’s just practice and you don’t worry about what everyone else thinks. Become better. Listen to people who do it great and try to...try to do what they’re modelling and inject part of what your personality is all about because that’s what makes you “You.”
You can’t be a Joe Rogan but you could be taking some pieces and parts from other podcasters that make your style your own. I mean if you take this directly from the music industry world, bands like Metallica. Bands like Metallica were influenced heavily by the new wave of British heavy metal bands and that’s where their style comes from. Metallica was just not an original style, their style came from someone else and then now their style has influenced other bands that have come after them.
Jared:
Sure. Yeah. I’ll weigh on this one just a tiny bit. Funny like kind of we’ll call this one a pandemic story. Believe it or not you probably will believe it, I am not natural behind the mic or in front of the camera and towards the kind of the beginning of the pandemic, we you know we at Kajabi - I’m actually right here live in our headquarters right now - we were very very office-centric. All of our communications happened in person one on one like we were talking face to face.
Shannon:
Right.
Jared:
Like everyone else we all left the office and you know after a couple of weeks I realized “Hey I’m going to need to actually start talking to my team and I’m going to need to do something a little bit more engaging” like we’re not going to be in the same room so they don’t get like the face to face dynamic. So I said “Well I’m going to record just a weekly update” 5 minutes, we’ll see how this goes. I don’t love this but like I’m going to do this because we need something for people to interphase with.
Well fast forward here we are a year and a half, almost 2 years later I now have done this what? 72 times once a week or so in the 70’s. Like I can guarantee if you rewind and look at the first one versus where I’m at today like just doing this like I don’t you know...the presenter that I was back then certainly was a much different story than what at least my comfort level and my confidence. All of these things have increased at their minimum, so.
Shannon:
Yeah. I think it just goes about with anything. I mean the pandemic story on my side not even dealing with podcasting, is that the beginning of the podcast...the pandemic, I sprained my ankle and I was going to the gym everyday. And I was like you know going to the motions and then when I sprained my ankle, I had to figure out a way to exercise and I was like “I am not doing yoga whatsoever.” Then I got into yoga and it turned out that 6 months into the pandemic I realized “Oh this is basically rehab on my ankle” and this is now what I do everyday you know. It was just practice, it’s just practice everyday to become a better presenter is practice.
Jared:
Yup. Looks like you got one more down here and this one is what is your advice to someone who has an idea for a podcast but doesn’t know where to start?
Shannon:
The idea for a podcast but doesn’t know where to start? You need...I would say that in that circumstance you know...figure out which equipment that you need to get, what is the mode of delivery that you’re going to be using. So if you can start with Zoom, or you can start with StreamYard, you can start with Restream, and you know some of those paid services. But if you get to start somewhere with a microphone, your recording platform, you don’t have to be using like Adobe Audition like I do. Start there and then with your topic itself like I said earlier, I would start coming up with and this is kind of like a hack that I learned when I was doing stuff on YouTube, is that you go into YouTube and you start looking up terms that people would be looking for inside of YouTube. And you say like “Okay I want to learn how to reroof my house, how do you reroof?” You know as I’m going to YouTube and Google and write in “How to reroof a house?”
And then I would look it up and If that exact keyword term didn’t exist then I would write that topic down and then I knew that I could talk about subtopics within that main topic area. So what would happen is that I would use that topic, title my podcast that and then or my YouTube you know video whatever it may have been. And then that gets indexed by Google. You know people start searching it inside of Apple Podcast, they start searching it in Spotify, utilizing your show notes.
And I would just start doing that, I would start looking up this topic in Google and then see what subtopics you could talk about. And you can always play off with the previous episode talked about so you could say “How to reroof a house?” And then you can start talking about subtopics and there and then you could...you can front sale or foreshadow that you want to talk about “Okay well what if there’s trees in the middle...on top of the house? How do we remove the tree limbs?” And then you can go ahead and go “How to remove the tree limbs using these top 5 tools?” And then you can go into that and you can always play up the previous episode if you want.
Jared:
I’m having one of those moments. Do I want to go start a new business and do this to try this now? We’ve got one for this episode now. I love it! With that said, man! Thank you Shannon. I think this has been I mean first of all we made a mark in history, this is our first live podcast. And I don’t think we had any issues like we had nothing go wrong. Which is cool.
Shannon:
No, no. We just had a few minutes left so we got to give some room for...No I’m kidding! For some type of mistake.
Jared:
Yeah. Something was bound to happen. Well but we didn’t, we overcame. And a huge thank you to everyone listening who joined us live, big shout out to all of you guys. It’s been fun watching you pop up, seeing all of your emojis pop up on the side, commenting, asking questions. This has been an absolute blast for me. I hope it’s been the same for you Shannon.
Shannon:
Yeah, it’s been great! I was honored to be asked to do this. I didn’t even think I was ever going to be asked. So I’m like... it was like a squealing moment when I got the email.
Jared:
Oh boy! No, we’re thrilled to have you on here so. Well for everyone who isn’t familiar with it of course you can always check out more and more episodes. They’re not all live. Normally they’re recorded but just check us out at kajabi.com/edge that’s K-A-J-A-B-I-.-C-O-M-/-E-D-G-E. Of course the podcast is also available on all of the traditional platforms including Apple Podcast, Google, Spotify so check it out. We’re also going to be posting this episode on Instagram tomorrow, the recording. So If you didn’t get to see the whole show or you know you missed a part of it you’re going to be able to check out the full recording. So with that said I think that’s all we have for everyone this week. Thank you again Shannon, for joining us.
Shannon:
No, thank you! And thank you everyone. I want to thank everyone for jumping in and being a part of this. This is like the first time I’ve actually done something on Instagram Live as far as the podcast recording is concerned. So it’s very cool to do this with you and tested out with you guys but everyone who’s been in here, thank you so much.
Jared:
Yes. Thanks again for everyone who joined us. We really appreciate it. And of course stay tuned on Instagram as well as check us out at kajabi.com/edge to see previous episodes of the podcast. As well as kind of stay up to date with all of the new episodes coming out. With that said I guess we will see you, yeah we’ll see you later Shannon as well as everyone else on the podcast.
Shannon:
Take care!
Jared:
Bye everyone.
