Sabrina Teekah
Jared:
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Hello everyone and welcome to the Kajabi Edge Podcast, where we talk to real entrepreneurs to give you an edge on Kajabi. I'm your host Jared Lohman Vice President of Customer Experience, and today I’m joined by my friend Sabrina Teekah, co-owner and COO of Op-X Consulting Services Incorporated, creator of Teekah Talks and Zoom Producer Certified. I didn't know that was a thing until today, Zoom Producer Certified? Tell us Sabrina.
Sabrina:
It sure is a thing! In this age, it sure is a thing. Thank you Jared, thank you for having me, I'm really excited about this.
Jared:
Thank you for being here. It's been really obvious to me, as you know like we’re just getting set up and like you seem to know the ins and outs of Zoom like nobody’s business. I don't think I’ve ever met anyone knew like right were to go with everything, so Zoom Producer Certified is the real deal.
Sabrina:
It is! Because you know since Covid, we have had no other way of doing face to face other than Zoom. Well we have other platforms, but the easiest for producers and attendees, and hosts and everything is actually through Zoom. There are other platforms but sometimes it gets a little complicated.
Jared:
Sure, sure! Well, tell us a little more about like just kind of the general, like Op-X Consulting, Teekah Talks, give us kind of like...what’s the elevator pitch for who you are and what you do?
Sabrina
Yeah. So first Op-X Consulting is a company that my husband and I own, and he specializes in IT CTO Project Management Services for larger mid size businesses, and I am focused on smaller entrepreneurs, that right now at this point I help them with their virtual live event strategies, because the virtual space has accelerated since Covid. And we need to have a stronger digital presence, and we’re doing everything online.
So I partner a lot with coaches, teachers, event planners to actually do their strategic planning for a memorable event online, rather than boring Zoom. You know, this is why we're Zoom Certified, so we know all the ins and outs and how to make Zoom exciting.
Jared:
Very cool!
Sabrina:
And you know you could think of us...really the way I like to think of Op-X Consulting is like your business Uber. We get you from point A to point B, we leave you there and then you call us when you need us again.
Jared:
Very nice! Very cool! Well...I guess I’d love to kind of just dig in a little bit to like how you got started here? Is this something you’ve done your entire life? Where did your entrepreneurial journey begin?
Sabrina:
So my background, I started in Corporate America, in the Healthcare and Railroad Industry, writing software from scratch. Large systems, millions of dollars worth of systems. So I worked at Florida Hospital doing admission systems, clinical, radiology and then I went to CSX and did systems for them.
So I was a Systems Analyst, a Programmer, a Project Manager for about 17 years. And you know in the software industry back in those days, it was like the dinosaur age of programming...so in any software industry there are very long hours and at that time when I first started, didn't have kids yet then we had two kids. My husband is also in the same field and we moved from Jacksonville to South Carolina, so I left you know I resigned and fully intending to go back to work but my son would not stay with anyone.
So my entrepreneurial journey kind of started around that time, where CSX had a huge project from you know...my former boss called and said “Oh! I wish you were still here. We needed your expertise.” Because my expertise is relational database design and they were starting this project and didn't really have somebody with that expertise. And you now transferring data from large system, from one to another and do data mapping and things like that.
So I jokingly said to him, well you can hire me. I can work remotely, this is before the internet so I’m sure it's older than you Jared. And so that's kind of how my journey started. I was an independent consultant for CSX for about 8 years, and I worked from 12 midnight till 4 in the morning. And then you know it started with a couple of hours, and then as my kids grew older and they can more or else take care of themselves, I worked more and more.
And then, the last largest project that I worked on is converting Conrail employee data to CSX benefits and retirement data. Because CSX purchased half of Conrail and the migration of the data whoever was coming over to be an employee of CSX had to be migrated. So that was one of my last projects. And then I just got burned out and decided to do something completely different.
Jared:
So, let's talk a little bit about the burnout and like...where did you go next from there? I imagine like 8 years of working remote with you know well...they started as babies now you've got you know, kids, no longer babies. Like what happened next?
Sabrina:
So what happened was I thought of going back to a corporate job and then realized that, “No I wanted to be there for my kids.” So I wanted to control my own time and decided “Oh what the heck! You know I can run a business, sure!” And so I started down this journey not really knowing, you know what's involved right? And decided I wanted to do something completely different other than computer science software, cause I was burned out. I mean working some ridiculously long hours.
So, I decided you know I really like this thing called Interior Design. I didn't really know you can study that when I was going to school for Computer Science. So I went and I studied Interior Design and in my brain that's the same thinking process as Computer Science. So it's always a vision to implementation, and what tools would I use in between to solve that problem. So, for example instead of code and programs and you know whatever, I would use flooring and fabric.
So to me you're still working with you know...I love puzzles, I love charts, I think in diagrams. So from flowcharts to blueprints to me it's all the same. I'm just using some different tools. And so I started my Interior Design business in 2002, and you know being the corporate overachiever, I decided I must win an award, I must be published, I must...you know have those stretch goals right?
Coming from corporate America you always have, you know your goals and then your stretch goals right? So, I knew nothing about running a business and I just thought I can control my own time. That was the most important thing - is controlling my own time. And doing something that was completely different than software. And so, that's kind of how that part of the journey started. Then I realized that I had to wear every single hat if you're running a business. I’m gonna have to go out and get clients and do this and do that, and I was like…”Oh crap!”
Jared:
Yeah. What a change! So, when you started that Interior Design business, was this entirely offline if you will? Like walking into homes, helping people set this up?
Sabrina:
Yes, yes! Back in those days it was completely offline, nothing online really. At that time I didn't even have a website. It was all word of mouth right? And this person would tell this other person and I would do classes. Now the way my brain operates is if I want to really dive really deeply into understanding something, I commit myself to teaching it. So I first signed up at the high school to do night school classes and then I signed up at one of our community colleges to be an instructor for Interior Design. Doing color, color theory, history furniture and I was like…”Oh crap! I need to learn this more.”
But it was like 2 for 1 because I was learning it and teaching it while I was doing it. So for example when I was in the software world I would do launch and learn for relational database design, because then I really need to know my topic if I'm gonna teach it right? So you always dive a little bit deeper. So that’s where my love of teaching and sharing my knowledge came about. Back in those days it would just be everything in person, when this person would tell another person then that's kind of how, you know that happened.
Jared:
Got it! Yeah, that makes sense. When did that kind of transition happen, from you know...offline in person, working on houses to maybe teaching online or was that the journey I guess?
Sabrina:
So the online journey so to speak happened a little bit more gradually than that. So my friend was also starting a business, and she was like I really need a website. You know the website presence was not as critical maybe 10 years ago. Yes it was there okay, but it was really hard and cumbersome. Cause you got to do this thing and get a plug in to do this thing and that thing.
And I just...I was so against going back into anything to do with software, that my brain just shut down from that type of thing. And she was like “Can't you? You’ve been in this world before, can't you just build me a website?” And I was like well yeah. So I built her a Wordpress site right? And she was like, “Why aren't you doing this for people?” And I was like, “Because I don't want to, you know.” So she said, but you know, you know that entrepreneurs they don't know how to do this right? And this could be something that you help them do in addition to what the other things you’re doing.
Because you know at that time while I'm helping with Interior Design, I’m also helping small business owners with their strategic business model, like what is that? What does that look like? Because to me unless you build a strong foundation you're just building stuff on sand, it's not gonna sustain you right? So I'm always looking at it from that point of view, and then I plan that for them and let them go do the building. You know I'm their architect, you go do the building. And so, that's kind of how the coming back into technology happened.
Jared:
So, what was the inflection point? Like obviously you're on Kajabi now. When did that start? What was that kind of discovery process like? Were you already selling courses online? Or did you start out using it for the website abilities? Where did that come into the picture?
Sabrina:
It’s interesting how Kajabi came into view. So I am a student of Brendon Burchard. I'm sure you guys know Brendon. And a lot of the other gurus in you know, with his type of expertise. And so I had bought this course from Brendon in…oh gosh, a long time, when he first came out with Total Product Blueprint, and he had it on the 1st version of Kajabi. And you know, then starting to learn a little bit more and realizing that Brendon was using Kajabi for his business. And I was like, “Okay, if it’s good for Brendon it’s good for me!” You know, and sort of that kind of where the awareness happened right?
And then, I started looking into it more and more, and then when it was launching...when Kajabi was launching, I was like, you know it looks like a really more cohesive piece of software as opposed to you know, what was available during that time right? So, that’s kind of where that awareness happened. And then I jumped on board in 2016.
Jared:
Got it! So at that point in time, like what were you...Were you still in the offline world doing Interior Design? Or you're building websites for other entrepreneurs? Like what stage of the journey were you at?
Sabrina:
So the stage was, I was still in the Interior Design phase in 2016, but I was also in the teaching phase right? Because I was teaching. So I did start doing my classes, like trying to figure out how do I get some classes online, right? But one of the most important things, the 1st priority was really to start building my lists. Because in the offline world... I didn't realize how critical that was, right? And so Kajabi gave me an easy way and a comprehensive way. When I say that, I mean I didn't have to use 6 different plug-ins to talk to each other. I can use one thing, and I could go from sale, to collecting an email, to nurturing an email and it’s all in one place.
Jared:
That means a lot for me, you know. As a software programmer to say that, given your background.
Sabrina:
Yes! Well, the thing that I say to my friends that so believed in certain platforms that use plug-ins. I was like “Do you understand what open source means?” Everytime Dick and Harry is writing a little piece of the software that you’re using, when it breaks your whole system breaks. Kajabi has everything in-house. They understand the way marketing is done, they understand the frustrations of a small business owner, they understand how to make it simple.
But there's also like, If I want to put some custom code, I can put some custom code and get a little fancier. But if you don't know that, you don't have to do that. It's all built in there for you and it’s easy for you to navigate. So I'm a big ambassador for you know, I'm gonna...I'm preaching Kajabi all the time, because I believe in the product so much you know.
Jared:
I love it! Well I’d love to kind of just zoom in a little bit on like you know, once you made that transition. Let's talk about some of the struggles, you know we love the platform, we love what it does for our customers. But like there's undoubtedly real struggles with getting started. It’s not a magic wand if you will. So where did you encounter kind of your first roadblocks on that journey moving online?
Sabrina:
Yeah. So really the online journey part, I think the biggest struggle is actually understanding how to market your business. Understanding that it’s important to stay in touch with your customers or your prospects on an ongoing basis right? And that's what's the beauty of Kajabi, it allows me to actually have click a few buttons, and get something out to my email lists, or have an opt in, you know where it’s easy to build a really beautiful looking page, and really make it visually appealing.
Because I look at my...I look at the things that I do in 3 different lenses. I look at it from a UX perspective. Am I giving you digital stress? You know when I say digital stress, am I making you click 500 buttons before I get you to the one thing I promised you? Is it easy to navigate? So Kajabi...because it’s building blocks that creates a one component, like a landing page or a website. It’s building blocks and I can move those blocks around, that gives me a lot of flexibility on how things look and feel.
The next thing is visually, am I evoking an emotion when you see my visuals? So that calls for my Interior Design training right? Am I...is the color on that page really speaking to my heart strings? Or is it repelling me? Or is it pulling me in? And then from a marketing perspective, because I also teach marketing and I do it because I have to learn it. I just have to learn how to market my business, you know? Is it really speaking to me? Is it making me want to buy?
So anything I do, I look at it through those 3 lenses. And Kajabi allows me to be flexible with how I’m presenting things, you know I can do a video, I can do an audio, I can do visuals. It gives me a lot of those without me having to figure out “Oh crap! Which other piece of software do I need to integrate into here?” You know it eliminates those types of frustration.
Jared:
Well let’s talk a little bit about your first...I guess success. Or what was the momentum builder for you when you made that transition? Like did you run a launch? Did you have a... just like a completely organic flow? How did you like, kind of see your first sign of success?
Sabrina:
Mine was...it started slow from 2016. Because you remember my husband also has a business, which is really not fully run on Kajabi. So we do things on that side of the business. So my online business...I was going a little bit slower. However in 2020, everything exploded! And it really...I think I made like 4 times my revenue within these 18 months because there were a couple of things that happened - ease of having something that we needed to have online, ease of building it and actually providing it.
So for example, you know some of my clients needed to have email sequences to promote their XYZ. And you know, they didn't have a way to build it quickly, so some of them did purchase Kajabi and they were like “Okay, how can you help me do this?” I can help them do that, or do a Landing page to do a register for an event or for whatever, or a dashboard for a virtual venue. You know it was easy to have it done quickly because obviously I know the platform already.
So that's where I saw a need. So I attended a virtual event with 1,400 people and it was 30 hours, 3 days, 10 hours a day. The reason why I attended that is because I wanted to understand, how can I make my 3-hour college classes more interesting online? Because I was doing them face to face. So that's the reason why I attended. Now what happened as a result of that is I saw lots of people that didn’t come from the online world, really needing help with the online tools. And I knew how to do certain things and I just jumped in and helped. And that's kind of where Teekah Talks was born.
We’ve cut about 50 something meetings so far. Every week we do a virtual meet up. But we talked about all things digital, virtual. You know, if I needed to do a vee for an event, how does that happen? You know how does one Zoom room talk to another Zoom room? How do you have more than 100 people on a Zoom meeting? How do you have hundreds of people on a Zoom meeting? So that's where I saw a need and I had the skill to provide something. And it just took off, really it just took off.
Jared:
I mean obviously during 2020, like I’m kind of jokingly say this like, “You know my grandma knows what a Zoom call is now.” Which is...you know it’s amazing! That definitely changed the dynamic in just in terms of like, awareness and visibility into kind of…the space that some of us like yourself who are early adopters we all knew about, but like it’s now exposed to the world. So I guess tell us a little bit about more like, where are you really focused in on right now? It seems like Teekah Talks are focused on like digital...you tell me. What is it focused on?
Sabrina:
So, one of the things that I used to preach before Covid, “If you’re not online, you’re not serving as many people as you can.” Because you’re limited to serving only the people you can meet physically right? And so, coming from a Computer Science world, you know working from home and working with different countries is not a new thing to us. Because we always have contractors in god knows everywhere right? So that way of working is not a new thing to anybody coming from that world.
It’s a new thing to people now coming because of Covid. Covid has accelerated you know, the need to be online by 10, 7 years, who knows how many years. Because now it’s not...I don't have to convince you that you need to be online, Covid did that for us right? Now as teachers, as trainors, as small business owners, I need to convince you that you need to be online, you know that you need to be online. But I need to show you how you can be online. And what are the things you can do online right? And also to help you understand the reach that you have online.
So during the last 18 months, I have made friends with people from every single part of the world right? I have clients in Australia, in Switzerland, in France, in the U.S. I mean, I have to keep now...what timezone are we on? So, understanding that reach is critical. So what I do is I collaborate with event planners. Or I collaborate with trainers, and coaches, and teachers. They really want to use this online space to build their business and to boost their sales, to boost their revenue, to boost their reach.
And so because it’s now, everybody in the brother knows what Zoom is, it’s so you know, it’s so doable right? It’s so doable, and you just have to know how to design these things so that they are memorable. So that’s kind of the part that I play is to help design the experience, because I do a lot of experiential design. Because coming from the...you know you could see where that comes into play from my Computer Science UX Design, plus Interior Design design is really understanding how are we evoking something memorable for the client or for the prospect right?
So, I’ll just give you a quick story for Interior Design. I used to do model homes. And when you do a model home, it’s a marketing project with some Interior Design right? So you gotta know who is the ideal person buying the house, that could buy this house. You have to understand the market, you have to understand...you really have to rebuild an avatar of who can possibly buy this house right? And what are... you know, what are they doing? What’s their profession? Give them all of those you know, define it to that level.Then we start designing the house.
But the other thing that we do is, we want you to leave with a talking point of the house. So I call it memory point marketing which I teach in the marketing class as well. What is the memory point? Because when you’re looking for a house, just like how when we’re looking for a coach, a trainor, or a program, what is the talking point? Because you’re gonna look at many right? So the talking point, we always design what that talking point needs to be.
So we want the client to leave the house, saying something about the house. So one time we wanted them to leave saying “Oh my god! Did you see that wallpaper in the bathroom?” So what we did was, we had tea cups and saucers in the powder room, which the theme was completely wrong but every other design aspect was correct. Color was correct, the scale was correct, everything else was correct except the theme was wrong. Who puts tea cups and sauces in the bathroom?
But we wanted them to say that, because once they evoke that memory, they remember the whole house. So that’s what this memory marketing point is all about. So I actually figured out how to bring that over to the business world and actually teach that right? How do I make myself memorable? Because a lot of times people tell you “Oh! Make yourself memorable.” But sometimes you know, business owners “Well...what do you mean? How do I do that?”
Jared:
Yeah, for sure! Well I guess I’d love to get a little bit better understanding of like, what is the...like what does your collection of content look like? If you know, one were to check out your Kajabi program like what's the expanse of your offering?
Sabrina:
So right now, what I am focused on is to help you boost your revenue, get more eyes on what you do, using virtual events. Or using the virtual world to really make people notice you more right? Now, a lot of people are doing Zoom events. They’re you know “Hey! Let’s meet on Zoom.” However you know, have you heard this phrase going around lately is that we have Zoom fatigue. Well, Zoom fatigue in my book means bad design. Bad design is Zoom fatigue.
Because I have to see something on some screen anyway it doesn't have to be Zoom.You still have to see a screen, so what you’ve designed for the interaction that's what’s bad. It’s not Zoom fatigue, it’s bad design. So I help people look at what their design looks like, what does every piece of what’s happening, and where do we put in the moments that matter? So that people can really have a memorable, impactful experience. So it was really understanding experiential design online.
Jared:
Got it! Sounds like it's kind of the...it’s like your entire career built up to this moment if you will.
Sabrina:
Absolutely! It’s all about how you’re gonna make me feel. When I’m finished with that interaction, what am I remembering? What were the moments that matter? How do we design those? And it has to be intentionally designed, it’s not “happens by fluke.” Because I see certain people...I’ve experienced for the past 18 months I think I participated in over 20 virtual events, where I was a part of the team planning, doing, strategizing, executing, blah...blah...right? I mean tomorrow we have one. An expo, a business expo for Atlanta. Atlanta’s Business Expo. Now, there’s gonna be100 people there right?
We’ve done the Fly Fishing Expo, can you believe it? A Fly Fishing Expo online? With 20 Zoom rooms. Each vendor had a Zoom room, because each vendor needed a private break out rooms, so they could go and speak privately to their client or to their customer, whoever you know. So understanding all those pieces...So it’s all doable and it’s all can be done in a memorable way.
I mean think about Tony Robbins, he’s doing virtual events now with 20, 30k people, you know. And he can see all of them, he can call out all of them. It’s not a webinar where you just look at the recording, that’s old school you know. Now we have to up the game and you do need the Zoom tools, you need the Zoom design and you need an online tool that can handle what you have to do right?
Jared:
Yeah. Well your journey here it seems has been undoubtedly very organic. It’s been a journey. So oftentimes you know when things happen this way, it's really harder to notice the change in the process but I’m interested for you like...what about your life has changed since kind of moving into this space? I don't know if it’s moving your offline business online? Or really like what’s changed for you since adopting the Kajabi platform I guess? Maybe that could be kind of the inflection point for you.
Sabrina:
Well a couple of things I guess it’s that, I know that my job here on this planet, on this earth, is to really help other people get their message out there. And the way I do that is through helping them with their tech, on the web tech part. On the pieces that I know how to do, I don't know how to do everything. And I am 100% or more than100% convinced that a small business owner needs to have a simple, comprehensive tool, to help them grow their business on a solid foundation.
What I see is digital spaghetti. You have a piece here, a piece here, you throw this and hope it sticks and it’s a complete mess. There’s like things all over. I want you to have lasagna, I want you to have a customer journey map. And they're all built out and they have you know, one after the other, and that’s how you build a more solid foundation to grow right? And I think at first we have to play around, we have to know, you know what...I’m gonna try this and try that. But that’s kind of the reason why I really...I love the Kajabi platform because I know it’s comprehensive, it’s all inclusive. I can do exactly what I want to do, and I can scale my business on this platform right? I can scale my business.
Now, let me say one thing. Right now since Covid, everybody in the brother has a platform right? That’s trying to do or implementing a whole bunch of different things, everything under the kitchen sink in the tool box. Now coming from a software background, I know that developing something like this takes a crap ton of time, it takes a crap ton of debugging right? And for the tool to work smoothly. So, I don't fall for the...you know, I know a lot of people fall for “Oh my god! It’s $5 for a lifeline.” You know...no, that's not how it works.
So, I don't wanna have to breakdown, and rebuild, and breakdown, rebuild, because I’ve seen that too many times. So anybody that’s serious I say, ”Listen if you’re serious about doing this please do not squirrel around on a software platform.” You know...so anyway that’s my little soap box.
Jared:
Well tell us a little more about what you have going on? What’s coming down the pipeline for you?
Sabrina:
So what’s coming down right now is I am going to be launching a program and it’s probably going to be 5 or 6 weeks, I’m not sure yet, with boosting your business and increasing your revenue using live virtual events. Now notice that I say “Live virtual events.” I don’t mean recorded virtual events. Because I want to have the interaction. So that’s why I focused on Zoom and I focused on how do I build this event? So how do I create those experiences? So that’s kind of what I’m gonna be covering in it is what is a live event? What is a virtual event?
So you could have a challenge, you know a challenge is really the hot thing now in marketing. Well you need a lot of web tech to support a challenge right? There’s a lot of strategy that’s involved, a lot of...you gotta journey map it out right? And those are things that I’m good at doing. And so I’m helping you do that but I’m also showing you how to use Zoom to support those pieces, so that they become memorable, so that you have that interaction.
So on one hand you have to have the web tech port, to support “Oh I need to shoot out 6 emails and this is the sequence of the email.” Well Zoom doesn't do that. We’re doing this over here right? In kajabi. Then on the Zoom part is the interaction part, how am I gonna use a Zoom to facilitate what I’m doing over here? Like for example Teekah Talks, I purposefully did not do it as a podcast because I could be interviewing people as a podcast. But my goal was for a community, to build a community and unless we were seeing each other, I really wasn’t building an old fashion village community.
Because we were all going through some really difficult times, we still are going through difficult times. And people can come on to Teekah Talks and say “Oh! How are you doing this week? What’s going on?” You know...and it’s more of a friendship community. So that community grew and...that’s kind of where we’ve gone back to as a business.
If we’re not leading with empathy as a business, we’re only leading with features, bells and whistles, nobody wants to hear about you right? They want to know that you understand the predicament or the challenge that they are facing today. And so you have to design those things. So that’s kind of what this program is gonna focus on, is how to design those experiences? And what tools are you gonna use to make it happen?
Jared:
I love it! Well if anyone wants to kind of stay in touch, get a hold of you, be aware of what's happening next, what’s the best way for them to do that?
Sabrina:
So the fastest and easiest way is Linkedln. And it’s my name, it’s first and last name is STeekah S-T-E-E-K-A-H. I do have a free guide,a guide workbook to anybody trying to do a virtual event, and an event doesn’t have to mean a 3-day event. An event could be a 4-hour class or whatever...a challenge whatever you wanna call it. I have a guide that you can post on your show note, a free guide that walks you through what you should be thinking about when you’re strategically planning it.
I have worksheets in there, you know I’m a full chart girl right? So there’s tons of charts in there, there’s tons of things that you can write in it. I think it's about 20 or 24 pages for the part 1. Now anybody that signs up for part 1 will get part 2, which means it’s broken into 3 parts like, what do you do before, during and after. And so each of those is probably...I don’t know, you get the next workbook after you sign up because I wanna know how you’re doing or what questions you have. And people can also join Teekah Talks but that will all be in the show notes.
Jared:
Yeah! We will get that into the show notes. That sounds like a lot of value packed into a 3 piece of content. So I’m sure that I could probably learn a lot from...probably page 1.
Sabrina:
Yeah, I learned so much within the last 18 months by participating in so many different types of events, so I poured all my...you know all the things that I’ve learned in there and plus things that I know about how to plan right?
Jared:
Well Sabrina, thank you very much for joining us today. It has been an absolute pleasure learning about your journey here. From corporate America, to entrepreneur, to consultant, all of the above. It’s been a lot of fun!
Sabrina:
Yeah! Thank you so much Jared for having me, thank you so much! Kajabi all the way!
Jared:
I like the outro. I like the outro. Well for anyone listening, if you’re feeling that Kajabi all the way it would mean the absolute world to us, if you hop on to your favorite podcast provider, Spotify, Apple Podcast, Google Podcast. I know that Apple Podcasts have the opportunity to leave a review. I literally go on there - I don’t wanna say everyday, I do but I don’t want to admit it - looking for those. I treasure when I see those 5-star ratings come in, and your comments. We of course love hearing from you, wanna make this a great great podcast and resource for you.
So thank you all again for listening. We appreciate you and we look forward to talking to you next time on our next episode of the Kajabi Edge Podcast.
